23 July 2004: Interfacing with God

You remember the question that he had put up. His question was related to Bell's theorem, and your learned principle has made an effort to get material in regard to Bell's theorem. I am sure, later on, each one of you will get a copy of this material, because this material will show you the frontier of knowledge at which we stand today. In the field of physics, frontier of knowledge is very important because, as the Taposh points out in his question for the first time, it is shown in physics that there is a speed greater than the speed of light, and it was established that, among all the physical speeds the speed of light is the fastest. So if there is now a speed greater than the speed of light, it must be something different from physical. So his argument was that it is already shown now in modern physics, that there is something extra physical, supraphysical, so that the communication between two objects of the same system can be connected with each other instantaneously without any speed whatsoever. This is a breakthrough, because if physics itself shows that there is something supraphysical and if God by definition is supraphysical, then it means that physics is now ready to accept that there are supraphysical presences in the world or there is God in this world.

His question is: why are we not able to see God he said I want to know what is the sense of life and if this something which some may refer to as God exists, then what is preventing us from interfacing this power, because I firmly believe it exists, the question is very well formulated and therefore, when a question is well formulated, it becomes easier to answer it now. His question is: why are we not able to interface ourselves with that. When we ask this question, why am I not able to see God or interact with God or interface with him, one of the difficulties we have in mind is that we want to see the supraphysical. If God, by definition, is supraphysical, and you say I want to see God, what you are asking is, I want to see the supraphysical or you might say I want to see physically that which is supraphysical.

So first of all, our question should be much more refined. If I say God is supraphysical and then you say show me physically, then I repeat my idea, sir, I told you, God is supraphysical and you are asking me show me that God physically, so I repeat, God is supraphysical, to demand a physical proof of a supraphysical reality is unjustified. This you can see very obviously, we are demanding a physical proof of a reality which in nature is supraphysical. So this demand of the physical eyes to see God, who is supraphysical, physically is not justifiable.

You should ask. If God is supraphysical, is there in me something supraphysical which can contact the supraphysical? That is a better way of presenting the question. Why am I not able to interface? That is because, when you want to interface, you are still trying to interface physically with the supraphysical, and that is not justified. If God is supraphysical, then you should say: is there something in me supraphysical? There must be because Bell’s theorem has now shown. It's not only there, it is also in me, there is in me also that supraphysical and the question therefore is to be the supraphysical that is in me, can it interface with the supraphysical that is God who is supposed to be everywhere.

Now, what is in me that is supraphysical? Normally we see ourselves as a physical body, but we also know that there is in us mind, mind which thinks and surely thoughts are not physical. When I see that somebody is angry, now if you analyse somebody is angry, how do you know somebody is angry? Obviously, you come to know that somebody is angry when he shouts, or at least his eyebrows, especially the expression of the mouth or expression of the face or expression of the eyes or of the eyebrows, even the forehead, even the shaking of the body. All these are expressions of anger, but these are expressions of anger. Anger is prior to the expressions, that anger you do not see, except when it is expressed. Actually, you must have seen very often that somebody is angry with you, but you can't make out. The person concerned may not express his anger at all. There are some human beings on this earth who can stab you very forcefully, very calmly, physically. Physically there is no sign at all that the man is angry with you. He just stabs you and he finishes his work. We even say cold blooded. Externally there is no sign at all. You may be extremely angry.

So that anger is supraphysical. You may not see it at all physically because there are no signs outwardly, but outer expression is something posterior, something later, original condition of anger is prior, is first precedent. In other words, if you want to see supraphysical, there must be some other means of seeing the supraphysical, not the physical means. Why are we not able to interface with God? It is because there is something in us, something that is supraphysical is not able to interface with something that is supraphysical, and this is the realm which we now will travel into, into the world of the supraphysical.

In all of us as I said, we all believe that there is a mind and this mind you never see. We believe there is a mind, but we don't see the mind, yet we believe there is mind because of the following facts. There are at least three activities which show you that there is mind in us. One is at the very lowest level is a mental image of an object. I have seen a photograph of x and when I remember x, that photograph comes into my memory and I have an image, a mental image. Isn’t it? It's a mental image I have, which I see, it's not a physical thing. Therefore, I have a belief that there is something in me which can picture a physical into an image which is not physical. The image that you see is not physical, it resembles the physical, but that image itself is not physical. This is my starting point of my suspicion that there is something in me which is not physical and yet it resembles the physical, it is supraphysical.

Then you go one step further and you have an idea. The first was the mental image. Now comes a proposition regarding idea. If I ask you the question, sweetness, sweetness is an idea at the most. You may have an image of some sweet, some cake, some jalebi, whatever you might have some image you might have, but it's not an image of sweetness. It is something deeper than that. An image of sweetness is not an image of any sweet, although it may be associated with it, but really speaking, you have only an idea of sweetness. This is how the idea is first of all experienced by us. What is that? It is a mystery actually. What is this idea, and this idea has a very special kind of quality. The idea of sweetness applies to varieties of sweetnesses. The sweetness of banana is different from the sweetness of orange, which is different from gulab jamun, which is different from something else, all are sweets and imagine your idea of sweetness applies to all of them, and yet it is different, so distinct. It is a very peculiar capacity of the mind, the mind is capable of forming an idea which applies to many many things in the world, and it distinguishes between many things and yet sees something that is common in all, sweetness itself. You understand what sweetness is. This is what is called in philosophy or psychology a concept, an idea which is only a copy of a physical object, is only an image, but when you really have an idea, there is always this element of what is called universality.

This is a very important step in the understanding of our own supraphysical. What is supraphysical? There is therefore an idea in us which somehow grasps something very common which is not specific, which understands even specificity and yet it understands different from specific. It’s a very tremendous capacity of the mind. Every one of us has got this great capacity. This is what is called the magic of the universal idea. It’s almost like magic because you see so many sweets and yet you derive from it an idea of sweetness which is applied to all and yet there's a difference. I see one cow, I see second cow, I see third cow and I have an idea of cowness and this idea is applicable to all the different cows. Each cow is different from the other. This concept of universality is one of the wonders of the supraphysical. I am taking you to the world of supraphysical, and this is the starting point. First starting point is a physical image. The second now is the idea, which is no physical. Imager. Now sweetness has no physical image where cow-ness has no physical image, cow has got a physical image, but cowness. And then you go beyond beyond, you might say cowness is actually some kind of resemblance to the cows, but let me come to an idea called beauty.

Beauty is a further kind of an idea. What is that idea of beauty? You just think about it? It’s another realm of the supraphysical, even a deeper universal. It is so difficult that even the philosophers who are asked what is beauty they find it so difficult to tell you what is beauty. Similarly, you go to a deeper supraphysical, the concept of truth. What is truth, you find nothing in the world, outside the world, anything that can be labelled as truth, there are only objects particulars, but when you speak of the truth, you have gone far far beyond your physical images and gone into another realm. In fact, philosophers have debated on this question. What is the truth? Some say that when an idea corresponds with the object, then that idea may be called true, not truth. That idea is called true, where judgement is called true, but what is truth in itself? It is even more difficult. Also according to some people, when an idea does not involve any self-contradiction, it is true. An idea which is self-contradictory is by nature untrue, but when an idea is without self-contradiction, it is true, but even to perceive non-contradiction, how do you perceive the non-contradiction is again a realm of supraphysical.

Now, these are two or three examples I am giving you, one can multiply the examples quite a lot, but you can see that all these distinctions you are able to make, you are able to understand. You are even able to debate. That means that there is something in your consciousness which can understand consciousness, and that is a very important step of your discovery. The consciousness has the power to understand consciousness itself. It is like having consciousness as a self-mirror. Normally, we have a mirror outside ourselves, but in consciousness the mirror is inbuilt, consciousness is capable of self-consciousness, and that is the second miracle of consciousness.

Not only that there is an idea, but there is also an idea of idea. There is self-consciousness, idea of becoming aware of the idea, and then it is so intricate that one philosopher has said that the realm of the supra physical is like having a series of mirrors on all sides. Now, if you go to a room in which there are all side mirrors, how many images you see of yourselves and you will find that there is no end of it, really physically even. You go to your room and put all sides mirrors, there'll be image of image of image of image of image of image of image of image and there is no end of it. Now this is one of the best ways of understanding the concept of the infinite. It is really a fact that if you have mirrors all around - and you ask the question image of image image of image image of image - it goes on. Now the same thing is about your supraphysical, even much more: idea of idea of idea of idea of idea of idea, it goes on.

This is the concept of infinity very often in mathematics the idea of infinity is accepted, although one can never explain this idea. Right? Nobody can explain the idea of infinity. That you might even say infinity is indefinite. You cannot make it definite. What is infinity, even in the image of mirrors you can always go on and on and on and on and on. The world of supraphysical is even more intricate than mirrors all around you. I am only trying to take you to the supraphysical world to the extent to which we can even in our ordinary life.

Now, take another example of the supraphysical. This is only one idea. The second one is feeling that your mind exists, because you not only your God ideas but you've got feelings and you can distinguish between feelings again. It is also very interesting. I can distinguish my feeling of joy from the feeling of sorrow. This is a tremendous capacity of the consciousness of the supraphysical. You can distinguish. Definitely you can say. I definitely have the emotion of joy as distinguished from the emotion of sorrow. I like, I dislike, and I can make a distinction between the two in my own consciousness. So this is another realm of the supraphysical.

The third is a realm of desire. Again, you can make a distinction between idea and desire, although in the same mind, idea, desire, all exist together, you are able to distinguish between the two. It’s not permanent, as it were. Your consciousness is capable of organising your mind in such a way as to distinguish your idea from feeling, your feeling from your desire, and you can distinguish desire from will, this is another capacity. I have a desire to eat something like an ice cream. I desire ice cream, but I know that I have a very bad cold. Therefore, I will that I will not take ice cream. The desire is there, you distinguish between desire and will, although I desire ice cream, I like to eat it, but I know that I am not well. Therefore, I should not take it and therefore I do not will to take it. You distinguish between desire and will. Isn't it? And this realm is a very vast field.

When you study a book for example and you remember, memories also are not a physical memory, the whole mind is, as it were, a storehouse of memory. You can take out something at the right moment when you are sitting for examination. Your mind is so organised that only the right thing you will remember at the right time and the right thing will be written at the right moment. These are tremendous capacities of the mind, of the supraphysical.

I am giving these examples only to show you that when you say I want to see God, there are layers and layers and layers which have to be crossed. Supraphysical is not only one inch below our surface consciousness. If it was only one inch below you can dig it up very easily and see God, but that is not the case. We should not be under the illusion that you'll be able to see God by mere one meditation in which you go within. There are realms and realms of ideas, realms of feelings, realms of emotions, realms of desires, realms of ambitions, realms of will and then realms of organisations. All this is to be built as it were.

Actually, when you educate a child, what do you do? All education is building a place of the mind, a balance of the mind. Actually speaking, when you are finished, you might say your principal would be happy when you have a beautiful place in your mind in which there are domes and the pillars and the floors and the pavements and beautiful decorations all around, and the teacher is like a mason who goes on polishing, first of all finding out the right tiles, the right kind of stones, right kind of cement and joins all this together and ultimately the mind is built as it were, and yet this building is such a small little thing when you read, for example, great authors like Will Durant writing 13 books of world history. One mind writing these extraordinary massive details, combined together, interconnected with each other, and it's only one mind and each one of us is capable of it. The potentiality is so great that we can all build that, and even that is only one mind, and there are many other kinds of minds.

Take, for example, the mind of Napoleon. I don't know whether you ever tried to understand Napoleon from the point of his mind. What kind of mind Napoleon had developed? Sometimes you ask your teachers to explain to you the mind of Napoleon. In fact, there is a book on the subject, The Mind of Napoleon. It's an amazing development of human consciousness, which could produce a kind of one mind of that dimension.

Now all this is supraphysical, a supraphysical which is still understandable to us. We are still able to understand this supraphysical. Now when you go beyond this human realm at the highest level, you find what is called universal mind. A universal mind is like a storehouse of many universal ideas which can embrace the whole universe as it were. It can speak of eternity and infinity, something like the mind of Einstein. One of the great difficulties of understanding Einstein is that Einstein pointed out that space, we all know what space is, space is extension, isn't it? I mean this is a minimum definition I’m giving you: space is extension, an extension as we see it. It has got length, breadth and depth. Right. These are three dimensions that we see of space: extension having breadth, length and depth. Now Einstein pointed out that there is a fourth dimension, which you don't see, and time is the fourth dimension. Now Einstein could make it, actually you and I would not have even been able to imagine that time is a dimension of space like depth and breadth and length and say that there is a fourth dimension, the time dimension, something of this kind. You can understand when you find that there are insects for example, which can only see one dimension. It can only see the depth, it can't see length, it cannot see the breadth, it can only see the depth, only that which is ahead of it. It can see only that much. We are able to see at least three dimensions. Now if our apparatus is different, our brain has this inherent difficulty, we are so constituted that what Einstein could see, we can't see, how this time, the fourth dimension of space, this 20th century has given this great miracle of perception. In fact, when Einstein produced this idea of Time as the fourth dimension, some books began to be written and some images also were made. I have seen myself some books giving images of things having a fourth dimension as Time. It’s very difficult. I don't know how it can be conveyed because we don't have apparatus by which we can have the fourth dimension’s fusion at all, but Einstein says that the fourth dimension exists and he proves that the fourth dimension exists. Physicists are obliged to accept Time as the fourth dimension of space and actually their whole new name has come not space and time but space-time continuum. Isn’t it. We have a space-time continuum, that is a kind of a continuity of space and time, not space and time but space-time. This is a very high level of the supraphysical.

Now, when you begin to see the infinity of space eternity of time, imagine and think about it. In fact, this thinking itself is a great help to come near to God, the more you think of infinity the more you can think of eternity. The nearer you reach God consciousness, the supraphysical consciousness, which you call God is very near this concept of infinity and eternity. One day if you have time, we shall spend only on that subject: how to conceive infinity and how to conceive eternity. You can have a very quiet classroom, everyone greatly concentrated, ready to imagine infinity. One example I give just now of seeing mirrors all around and trying to see infinity, and then there are many such ideas which you can have in our consciousness, where the ideas of infinity can be experienced, can be seen.

Now, having read this idea of infinity and eternity, this is what I call a universal mind. A universal mind lives constantly in the idea of eternity and infinity, just as we live in the finite consciousness all the time. Everything has boundaries, but you can reach a supraphysical consciousness where you constantly live in infinity and eternity. You come nearer to a higher level of supraphysical.

Now, you go further. Now to go further I shall only take help of your blackboard. I shall try to explain to you something which I cannot explain merely by words. I need to have some figure. Basically what does Time mean? Time is like there are moments, a moment now this one is quite easy to see, but now one position happens. This morning that this moment has a distance between the two and what is between these two moments? There is a gap. That means between the two moments also there was a moment. Now if so, you can say that between these two moments is a gap, therefore there would be a series of moments. Now the interesting question that arises is time never begins and never ends. There must be a moment which contains all moments, all moments in one, and that is called is as a result we can say it is a moment which is infinite. It cannot be understood.

Now, it is all containing magnitude or, you might say, all containing extension, which has no magnitude, because if it has magnitude it must have space in it. So it must be an extension without any magnitude, and yet all containing, if there is time it is all containing moment only, one moment, all containing moment which you can't understand. This is the limit to which your mind can perceive in the supraphysical. So you can at least have now this much that when you go beyond your physical perception and enter into the supraphysical consciousness, this is the highest limit to which you can reach as we are. Now when we speak of God, we say he is beyond space and time. Now this is another stroke as it were. Our mind is, as it were, a thunder. Already space and time we don't understand, what it is and now we are told a second step in which we are told God is beyond space and time or you might say, God is spaceless and timeless. Now spaceless and timeless is something like one moment containing all moments, one magnitude containing all magnitudes. Once you reach that point, it is easier to imagine what is spaceless. It’s only imagination. Now this our mind cannot perceive, our mind as I told you has a limitation, it can go only up to this, beyond that it cannot, Just as we cannot see the fourth dimension of space-time continuum. Similarly, now you cannot perceive first of all even space and time, you cannot perceive spaceless and timeless. So even if I say, God is supraphysical, even that is not sufficient, because your mind is supraphysical, so I have to now say that spaceless and timeless God is supramental.

He's not just mental, even in the supraphysical plane there’s a distinction between mental consciousness, which is supraphysical, and something which is supramental. It is beyond the limits of the mind. Now when, therefore, you say, I want to see God.. just this morning somebody was asking me, and I said you must ask whether God wants to see you, if he says that I want to see you, perhaps then we have some possibility. That is why many people say you can never see God. This is also one of the views. God cannot be seen. There is in the Upanishads it is written: it is That from which the speech returns. Whatever I have said, is also speakable, time space I can speak of. But now when I say space is one moment, one magnitude containing all magnitudes, I’m using the word, but you are sure that I am speaking nonsense. It is that from where the speech returns, it is that from which the mind returns. When you think of it, the Veda says:

ta adhitam vinashyati

Reality when it is thought, it vanishes. Reality is you return from thinking, and you say it cannot be grasped, cannot be seen. So when you say I want to see God, and one answer is my dear friends, God cannot be seen. When you said why can't we interface with it? The reason is that the mind with which you are trying to interface, this is what you have at present, your mind, with that you cannot interface with that which is all space and beyond space, and such is the nature of reality of God. God is all space and beyond space, He is spaceless space, timeless time, such is the nature of God, and that being the case, many many people believe you have to believe in God but you can't see God, but some people believe that you can, you can interface, and that is our starting point.

Now, today’s lecture starts at this point. This is only the introduction, preface. A consciousness different from the consciousness of the mind, then through the help of that consciousness, you can see it. There is a very interesting sentence in the Kena Upanishad. The reason why I want children to study Sanskrit and why I want India to study Sanskrit is that some of the profound statements of this kind of knowledge are given in the Upanishads, and this is the heritage of India. And if you can't tell our children the heritage of India, then I can simply say I have failed in giving to the children what belongs to them. This is their ancestral property and I should give the ancestor property to the children of India. According to Kena Upanishad, there are two doors which are open. It uses a language which sometimes may not be very convenient to us, but we should try to understand what it means. As I told you, so far what I have spoken to you is a preface to the answer to the question that you asked. You can see how happy I am with your question.

Okay, there are two doors according to Kena Upanishad. It says that of which you are and that which is in the gods. Through these two doors you can have the knowledge of God, you can interface. You cannot interface with this mind that you have. This is the limit of the mind. It’s not the limit of yours; it is not your limit, it is the limit of your mind, just as the limit of your senses. My eyes cannot see all the horizons, only one horizon it can see. It’s a limit of my eyesight. I can only hear up to a certain distance and there's a limit. Similarly, my mind can go up to this. This is the highest limit I have described to you today, the highest limit to which the mind can go, and when you reach there you find you are in self-contradiction, you are bewildered, you cannot grasp it, but it is not your limits. It’s the limit of your mind.

So he says that of which you are and that which is in the gods, these two doors. If you open, you can see the brahman, you can realise the brahman, you can realise God, you can see God. I shall now come back to this point a little later. I only told you that these are the two gates, but let us ask those people who have gone through these two gates and they will give some report. If I cannot go to America, I can hear about America from the people who have gone to America, so that we have some idea. If somebody has gone there, then he can come and tell us what it is like.

There is a very beautiful image given by Plato. You heard the name of Plato, the great philosopher of the west. He speaks the language of the Upanishads, and this image is a very beautiful image. He says all of us imagine all of us are in a cave, a cave in which there are many pillars and each one of us is tied tightly to a pillar, each one of us. Imagine now you do not see the pillar. You do not see that you are tied, but according to Plato we are. You cannot take away your eyes. You cannot take away your mind. You are tired. You are tied to pillars. Each one of us is tied to one pillar. So what happens is that you can see only in one direction. You can only see what is in front of you. Now, imagine that behind you at the end of this classroom there is a fire, then what happens? and here is a wall, and we are all slaves, as it were, tied up to the pillars and behind us there is a big fire.

What will you see? Anybody can answer this question? What will you see on your front is only one wall we are all tied up. I can only see the wall behind you. There is a fire. Tell me, what will you see? You will see the shadows. Right. You can see nothing but shadows. We will not even suspect that there is a fire behind you, as a result of which you are seeing the shadows. You are only seeing the shadows and nothing else. Now according to Plato, all of us are living in that cave. Whether we know it or not, whether we admit it or not, but we are all living in a cave tied to a pillar and whatever we are seeing, is nothing but shadows and we believe there is nothing but shadows. You can't even imagine what fire is like, which is the real cause of the shadows. You can't even imagine what is fire, there's no comparison between shadow and the fire. No comparison, you can't say that fire is something like a shadow, not at all, it’s quite different. Now, if somebody says what is fire, somebody says there is fire behind you. You cannot even imagine what is that fire like. Similarly, if I say I want to see God, God is like whom I can't even give you a description, you have not seen anything like him, so how can I tell you, what is God like?

Now, it can so happen that one of us is quite muscular and is able to break the ropes by which he has been tied up and as he loosens his rope in which is tied up, and he turns back: My Lord! he sees a huge fire which he could never ever imagine and he tells all the people, look there is a fire and he doesn't know how to describe it. Nobody will understand what that fire is like and he will tell them. My words cannot describe it. My mind, my words, my mind cannot describe it. You can't imagine. Not only that, but now he is able to walk out of the cave and Plato says you walk out of the cave and when you go to the end of the cave, you find a bright sun shining there.

Now, imagine fire and sun, what is the distinction between the two. Having seen that sun when he comes back to you he says? Oh, there is something like rays and rays and rays of light, uninterrupted flow of light, and the concept of light is not available to the slaves at all and to say the rays and rays of light. Now in what language, how should I describe what that God is? He says tha, that is like God or the highest Good. That is supermind. He says that is the highest light, the highest mind in the light of which all can be understood. Even your cave can be understood, your shadows can be understood and you can understand what is beyond all this. We cannot interface with it because we are tied, so there should be somebody who unties us, and this is the task that Plato gives to the teacher.

A true teacher is one who has striven to unloose himself from the pillars who have seen that fire behind. He has gone beyond the cave, gone to the end of the cave, and then he has seen the sun. Sometimes the sun is so splendid, you don't feel like returning at all to the cave. Many teachers are there who having seen that sun, they don't bother to come back, but Plato says a good teacher is not like that. A good teacher is one who has seen and then he feels like coming back and telling all his brethren all his brothers and sisters: look you are only seeing shadows, it’s nothing, there's a splendid sun somewhere, which you cannot even understand, only if you come out of the cave you can see it.

So why can't we interface with God? Because God is outside the cave, so resplendent. There is no image here. Now that image, which is described by those who have gone and seen God, they give you three words by which you can try to understand. We are all slaves in the cave, and now somebody like rishis who have gone there. They are now telling us, so Upanishads are nothing but reports of the rishis who have gone out of the cave and seen that beautiful resplendent sun. This is our only hope. What are they saying? They have given three words that reality, that sun is omnipresent, he is omniscient and he is omnipotent.

These three words are very important words. That reality which can be known according to these rishis, you can see him and he is omnipresent. He is omniscient and he is omnipotent. Now actually, these three words cannot be understood by the mind. We have heard these three words very often, but when you try to understand it is something like this what I have told you, these three words cannot be understood, but we can understand one thing, omnipotent is that which can do everything that is possible, all right. This is the meaning of it. Omnipotent is a one word which can be understood to some extent, omniscient to some extent, even lesser degree, omnipresent also to a lesser degree. Out of these three words, the one word which you can slightly understand is about omnipotent. Now we shall therefore go to this word omnipotent, because it is more easy for us to understand. It is a reality which can do everything that is possible, I’ll start with that proposition. Reality is often omnipotent and I am defining omnipotence. It can limit itself to the desirable degree.

(Quality of recording is poor for the next five minutes. Therefore the transcript for it is omitted.)

Seeing in you is the capacity of silence. This is the secret of meditation. When you try to meditate, what do you do? You try to become as quiet as possible. Not absolutely, because that is so difficult, but if you try to meditate more and more and more and more then you can enter into the region of silence and at least silent God you can experience. This is the real utility of meditation. As long as you are only thinking by your mind, I told you the limit of the mind, but if you can enter into the region of silence which is in you, then through that you can experience the silence, it is silent God, you have still not seen shiva dancing. If you want to see the divine dance of shiva, you cannot have it only by silence. So here you have to find out now how even you want to see the dynamic God. To see only silent God is only one aspect, he's not all. Therefore many people say leave this world, because world is movement, go to the Himalayas, be very quiet, be silent, leave the world, it only means that you are not seeking God in his whole totality. You are only seeing one aspect. You have not seen the sun, full blaze of light, dynamic, so we have to ask ourselves: why is it that we are all the time moving here and we are cased in this body, we have this mind, which is great, but still so limited. How has it come about, and why am I here? What am I?

That is why in India, we have always said to everybody, know yourself, ask the question: who am I? What am I? That's why this question is very important. What am I? Even the Greek said: know thyself. It was a great statement of the temple of delphi, where this was the big proposition put down, know thyself. The answer is, we can tell this in the form of our story. This is a story that the Mother told us, which you can tell children, which can be told also in metaphysical terms in very dignified terms. It may not look infantile, but sometimes infantile stories can tell us better than great metaphysical discourses. So let us see this story.

(Retelling of The Tradition told by the Mother)

Now, we have come to the smallest part of my answer. I spoke to you of the veil you remember. The whole question started with the idea of a veil. This inconscience is the basic veil. It is the veil created by consciousness when consciousness wraps itself up more and more and more and more, it is not that the veil is outside consciousness. It is made, fabricated by a downward movement of consciousness. I’ll give an example: how does consciousness veil itself? All of us have experience of talking to children. Surely your consciousness is larger than the consciousness of the child evidently, and yet, when you talk to the child, you don't manifest before the child all that you know. You even speak the language of the child to be able to communicate to the child, even though you are master of a language, when you speak to the child, you can even speak a language which is full of mistakes, so you are capable of having double consciousness, a consciousness which is very wide, at the same time, it can hide itself from the child. It can take the form of a consciousness appropriate to the child. So consciousness has many many powers. One of the powers is the power of limiting itself to such an extent that it can hide itself from itself. So inconscience is nothing but the super conscience hiding itself from itself to the utmost possible level.

Now, when you rise from it, then that consciousness begins to unveil little by little. We have reached a point where we are not completely unconscious. We have unconscious within ourselves, but also we have consciousness, also, there's a belt of consciousness. Now that state, which is partly unconscious and partly conscious, is called ignorance. Ignorance is not inconscience, inconscience is one in which there is complete sleep, not destruction of consciousness, but complete veiling of consciousness, and this consciousness little by little wakes up, and we have reached this point where we are. Therefore, all of us are defined as human beings in a state of ignorance, it is like Plato's slaves tied to the pillars. We can only see one thing and see only shadows. We are not sleeping. We can see the shadows at least, that stage of consciousness where we are tied in our physical senses and where we are tied to the mind, which is only three-dimensional and nothing more. That is our bondage. That is ignorance.

Now, if we therefore want to break this ignorance - and this is now the final answer to the question, how can we know God - it is by breaking ignorance and breaking ignorance means to take recourse to yourself and to the gods. You try to connect yourself. God is a world which is not at present fashionable today, but you can say you tie yourself with cosmic powers. God is nothing but cosmic powers. You tie yourself. You try to take advantage of cosmic powers. Now how to get in touch with cosmic powers? This is the knowledge given in the Veda.

Veda is what? Veda is actually a science of connecting yourselves with gods and connecting yourself with yourself. That is why it is called Veda. Veda is knowledge. What kind of knowledge? It tells you how to break your ignorance. You can open yourself to the gods. You can open yourself to yourself and the whole of the Veda is a complete science. If you read the Veda from this point of view, you will find Veda is called Veda because of this reason: it tells you how to break your ignorance, how to contact the gods. It has first of all discovered who are the gods—Indra, Varuna, Mitra, so many gods.

It is like knowing a ministry. If you want to get some decision to be made by the government, you go to the minister, but you must know how to reach the minister, who are these private secretaries, who are secretaries, joint secretaries, deputy secretaries and so on. Similarly, in the Veda, this knowledge is given, which God is connected with what gods, what are the interconnections and how can you reach until you reach Indra. Indra is supposed to be highest of the gods. How do you reach Indra and then beyond indra? What is Surya? Surya is the highest, higher than indra. Even when you reach that Surya there is the Platonic Sun, you reach that supreme light.

So now, when you say I want to see God, let us invite ourselves it's a very important occupation of man. He must do it. The minimum starting point is meditation. Try to learn how to be silent, but it's not all. Try to develop your mind, body, life, everything to such an extent that it can vibrate more and more with invisible, supraphysicals, then a time will come, it is said by the Kathopanishad, God chooses you. As I said, does God want to see you, you reach a point where you say now I am knocking knocking knocking. I am only three dimensional, please open up. This is called the process of yoga, knocking knocking knocking all the time. It’s a very simple thing—aspire. This is one mantra—aspire. Always I want to see the supreme lord and Christ, as he said, knock and the door will be opened. It’s a promise given to man. You knock have trust, he will surely open the doors.

So the total of the whole thing that I want to tell you is that, according to the inheritance that we have received from the sages in India, we are told you can see God. It is the first proposition. You can see God through yourself and through the gods. The method is aspire aspire constantly. By this aspiration the doors will be open and you will see God face to face.

This is my very brief answer to your question. When we come again next time, if you still have more questions about it, we shall go into details of this question if you at all, you have now patience after all this think that this is the first lecture of knowledge of God. After that, there is so much to learn. It’s a very big science.

All right, thank you.